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Man Versus Alien in Desperate Battle

Man Versus Alien in Desperate Battle

Just a quick one to highlight my visit to Warhammer World this Saturday (5th September). I’ll be there from 11am to 1pm signing my new Space Hulk novella, and copies of the game for that matter, as well as anything else folks would like to bring along.

Published in: on September 2, 2009 at 10:04 am  Comments (12)  

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  1. Would you please apologize for creating the piece of trash known as the CSM codex? Thank you.


    • Which part am I supposed to apologise for?
      The part where I separated miniscule details of the models from the rules so that players can feel free to convert their wacky Chaos troops without feeling they have to pay 5 points for some splky bits, or unsure exactly whether their Black Legion commander is allowed to carry a fancy axe, or whether they had to paint their marines red in order to get the Mark of Khorne?
      Or perhaps I should apologise for removing the overly-prescriptive army list variants, that implied that across ten thousand years and the whole of the galaxy Nurgle marines never once used heavy weapons?
      Or just maybe I should apologise for the background section that concentrates on the Chaos Renegades, the part of the background that players can atually expand and make up for themselves, rather than the Heresy Traitor Legions, which have been set in stone for more than a decade?
      On the other hand, perhaps I should say sorry for including an expanded colour section to include more than thirty colour scheme variants to inspire players?
      Perhaps it’s having the rules in one codex rather than spread out across five different volumes that is causing the problem?
      Then again, maybe it’s fitting to apologise for streamlining a codex that was, by far and away, the codex most often leading to army list errors in tournaments. That is, a codex so far up its own bottom that even its own players made mistakes picking their armies more often than anyone else; never mind how impenetrable it was for opponents to understand.

      Or perhaps you should apologise for coming on to my blog and acting like a dick…



      • You can start by apologizing for Lash.

        Then you can apologize for making the codex so bland and boring that the new Imperial Guard codex has more character in it.

        You can apologize for giving us terrible units like the Spawn, Possessed and the Dreadnought.

        You can apologize for what you did to Daemons.

        You can apologize for shoehorning in Renegades into an army of ancient daemon worshipping Space Marines (where did they get all those Reaper Autocannons and why did they lose their Landspeeders?).

        You can apologize to all those Cult and Undivided players who lost rules for their wacky troops just so they can gain the ability to take Tzeentch marked Havocs.

        Thank you.


      • You did a damn shoddy job and you should own up to it.

        You say you removed confusing options from the Chaos Codex, but you replaced them with *no* options. The Chaos Marine used to be the most versatile soldier in the game. He could Infiltrate, he could Tank Hunt… the Champion in there could be packing vicious mutations. Now though? Now he gets in a Rhino and rides across the board.

        You say you cut down on prescriptive options for the cult troops, but Plague Marines still can’t use Heavy Weapons. Do you mean the 50 point Nurgle icon that the vanilla Chaos Marine can get? If so, then I think that was an ‘option’ most Chaos players could have done without.

        And I’m sorry, the background section was completely butchered. Not even mentioning such gems you came up with as the ‘Bleak Brotherhood’, did it ever not occur to you that those crusty old Chaos Legions might actually mean things to a few players? That playing a shitty warband might not be as appealing as playing a galaxy-shattering Legion? I’m guessing it didn’t.

        Did you maybe think that people might have had a certain amount of attachment to the specific demons of the Gods? That they just wanted a simple ‘Greater Daemon’ and ‘Daemon Pack’? Well you’re wrong. I have a Forgeworld Great Unclean One on my desk and let me tell you something: It’s not a Greater Daemon of Chaos Generic.

        The old Chaos Codex wasn’t perfect, but if you think your edition was an improvement then you’re fooling yourself because Frank is totally right.


  2. +1 Gav

    While I did love the old Codex, it’s mainly the memories and times I had with it. The new codex streamlined it and brought it up to date and put the focus and initiative/onus on the players rather than the static nature of the Traitor Legions during the 13th Black Crusade. To me, the Legions should be left to the background with a new strong focus on the their tragic nature, the dilution and loss of identity/meaning the Chaos Legions endured post heresy as they slowly but surely lost themselves to Chaos. Their motives, ideals and agendas reduced to the petty and whimsical games of their Gods. But that’s the beauty of 40K, everyone’s viewpoint and interpretation is different and just as equally valid.

    As such, I never really got why Legion specific forces would be so abundant outside of a black crusade environment and so Renegades allow any time, any place, any where. But then again I’ve always favoured the idea of having the Lost and the Damned as the most prominent force with Renegades coming a close second.

    That aside, many thanks for the thought processes and techniques you’ve used or posted as advice as it really does help those of us who dream of one day getting the foot in the door or even improve our own amateur writings for leisure!


    • Thank you.

      It was always the intent behind the revised codex to hand the power back to the players/ collectors/ painters. It’s too easy for a games developer to make up lots of cool stuff and, unwittingly, cut off avenues of exploration for hobbyists. When such background gets forcefully hardwired into the rules, it stifles creativity and only allows the writer to continue to develop the background and imagery.

      This was also the reason why I changed the presentation of the ‘Bloodlines’ in Vampire Counts; to free up the world for players to explore rather than to reinforce the notion that only games developers can come up with different sorts of Vampires.




  3. Greetings!
    It seems that I’d like to ask an offtopic question, but hope that it would be ok.

    In your ‘Renegades’ short story there is a sentence:
    “It was sunset and Helmabad’s star was low on the horizon, almost directly opposite the east gate.”

    The sun was setting in the “east”? Surely, east is where it should rise – regardless of planet or star.

    Or is it just me?

    The story was very very good though, enjoyed it greatly! Thank you very much


  4. It’s a shame. I really do like both codexes, but the only thing I prefer in the old codex is all the art in it. In playability I do have to say I enjoy the new codex in terms of balance, and the whole hype over Lash is unjustified. I find MoZ+wings and Winds of Chaos/Warptime to be such a more effective setup then the much more fragile and bigger fire magnet lash prince. Yeah, Cults are gone, but So are the restrictions on everything in the codex. Alpha Legion lost their cultists? Get some originality, there’s a few things in the codex you can represent as cultists. Word Bearers can still take millions of daemons, and Empereor’s Children can still take Emperor’s Children, just not as retardedly powerful.


  5. Dear Mr Thorpe im a member of a site called 40K Online, could if you have the time please take a look at my thread relating to problems with the Chaos Codex. My concern is primarily motivated by concerns over how your changes reflects on the background of Chaos Marines rather than the game mechanics, respectfully yours Jack/The Dark Ecclesiarch.


    • I think my counter-arguments have been pretty well covered by other posters in that thread. Going back to the Realms of Chaos books and the 2nd ed Codex: Chaos, there was a lot less of the factionalisation that was introduced in Codex 3.5. For the part of the Gods, the Great Game is an ever-shifting miasma of alliances and emnities, while for the followers of Chaos, there are many examples – Horus Heresy being the greatest – of inter-faction co-operation.
      The point of a flexible army list, rather than a restrictive one, is to allow players to field armies covering the whole scope of Chaos. Your force can be one drawen from Chapters and Legions with varying alliances, or be a ‘purist’ force for those that don’t like mix and match. I think this is a better approach than pre-determining what folks will want to collect with literal interpretations of a very narrow part of the background.


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